It’s amazing to me the differences between people. So many lines that define us that are constantly being twisted around to benefit the line drawers. You walk into church on Sunday morning you see all of God’s creation, in all of their splendor, and some in their shame. To be true not everybody knows every bodies business, but most people think they do. Lines get drawn on so many levels that it’s almost impossible not to at least feel them.
A family goes through a divorce and people think they know all the inside information and lines get drawn. Who’s on his side and who’s on hers… and above all else: where does the church stand?? Another may get caught drinking a beer at the local pub and the lines get drawn again…. who’s for it, and who’s against it. There are Conventions that make their #1 talking point the decision about women and whether they should be allowed to teach or not. I’m a member of one of those conventions and I think they do AMAZING things around the globe, but really??? That’s what you want the world to talk about when they talk about you?? The line you’ve drawn. Tell that to Beth Moore… who has had a HUGE impact in my life. I understand lines… I understand sin and the consequences of it… I understand that Jesus said turn from your wicked ways…. but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about STUPID LINES that are completely unimportant when people are dying and going to HELL.
Contemporary or Traditional
Rich or Poor
Sinner or Saint
Black or White
Male or Female
Baptist or Methodist
(Seeker friendly) or (Tell em’ the truth) church
NOT A CHANCE.
How do we make the lines disappear?
We need to leave our concepts, our opinions and everything about “self” aside. God’s people, the Body of Christ, are all equal in His sight. It’s not about “us”, it’s about what God wants out of us when we choose to follow Him. Also, it’s not about, “God, what can we do for you?” No! It’s about Lord, let me be still before You, let me rest in You. Then, through the leading of the Holy Spirit do we do what He has planned for us. We are on this earth for Him, for His purpose. Lord, fill us up with Yourself!!!
Jason, I think the answer to your question is as simple as your song “I Believe”. It is four letter word that Christians use so loosely. I don’t think we truly know what it means to love as Christ loved. I’m not sure if we are capable because of our sinful nature. I always hear “I love you brother” or “I love you sister” and wonder how God feels about our statement. Would they LOVE us if they REALLY knew us? Jesus does. I feel so many times when it comes to the hard issues many believers hide behind shallow statements like, “I’ll be praying for you” or “Put your trust in God” thinking that covers the bases. Please don’t get me wrong, I believe many times people are being genuine, but those statements seems to be the go-to antidote for every problem. If you want change then you have to get your hands dirty. Lines are drawn by the enemy who seeks to divide and conquer. We say we believe then it our duty to fight for what we believe. Our fight is not against each other, it is against the enemy who wants to destroy who we stand for. I believe LOVE is the answer.
Hey Jason…
I’m on the job but couldn’t wait to reply because this is something I’ve been talking about with friends, family and coworkers for quite a while. Our region has major issue with prescription drug abuse and addiction. It is tearing families apart and our crime rate is off the charts. Many churches have joined the fight…but getting church leadership to stop drawing lines has been one of the biggest obstacles. “We don’t what THOSE people in our church!” I heard a lady say this about a recovering addict who had lived in the belly of the beast for quite some time. At the same time, she criticized the church that welcomed this broken man with open arms. Wow! Small churches don’t want to be affiliated with big churches. Traditional churches don’t want to partner with progressive churches. So many are afraid of losing membership…so they just stick with their own initiatives trying so hard to protect what they’ve got. Many just can’t see that we need to be on the same team in this fight. Addicts looking to be redeemed don’t need to see churches divided about how to help them.
Back in 2009 when my group brought B429 to my hometown, the idea was that churches in the community would come together to co-sponsor community events for teens. I can’t explain how disappointed I was when pastors, church leaders and people with financial means to help the mission point blank told me they wouldn’t put a dime toward it because the type of music “wasn’t their thing” even though our kids and teens were screaming for something that spoke to them…and you guys didn’t disappoint! Four years later, many of those pastors have zero teens in their congregation…and they wonder why. They blame the big churches. I say, look at the lines they’ve drawn.
How do we make the lines disappear? I think it’s going to take some time. I’m encouraged by the youth movement in our region and several young pastors and evangelists launched ministries that seem to be erasing some of the lines.
I think those drawing the lines also have to take a good honest look at how they’ve come to their conclusions. Have they made their own list of big unforgiveable sins and small not-so-bad sins? Have they selected specific parts of the Bible to enforce with a heavy hand while ignoring other parts…even the contradictions that often show up in the New Testament?
I think we look at those drawing the lines and ask for a truthful answer to a once very popular question…What Would Jesus Do?
-Greg Carter
It’s definitely frustrating to hear anyone say “we don’t want those people here” but it’s a phrase that we’ve all heard many times before. It brings up doubts about the things that I have my own preconceived notions about. The truth is that no one is a lost cause… Saul being my case and point. Who are the people that I choose to feel the same way about?? There are many people with many different lifestyles that disturb me… but aren’t they worthy of the same grace and mercy as us?
Jason,
You are absolutely correct. Nothing is what it is in our church or anyone else’s for that matter due to “us”. Everything that happens or doesn’t happen are all in GOD’S design. If everyone would learn to take the focus off themselves and place it on serving God and others, I believe that there would be a huge paradigm shift…
Keep rockin,
Mark
Mark you seem to be making my point for me…. maybe we should take our eyes off of ourselves and put them on Jesus. Maybe the lines between us and others would start to disappear.
This is so in line with a recent book our christian leadership group just read – “Accidental Pharisees” by Larry Osborne in which he wrote – To avoid this we need to ‘Grasp the true gravity and depth of our own sin. For the gospel to remain the gospel, grace and mercy have to remain front and center’. Hmmm, I better get going or I’m going to be late for a concert tonight 😉
Hey Debra…. another book I’m currently reading asks the question…. “How many of us really feel that we deserve Hell”?
Wow! Just what I needed today….a blog from Jason. 🙂 I totally feel and understand your frustration here. Been frustrated with this for decades myself. We must stop focusing on ourselves and our agendas and let the Holy Spirit lead us. Jesus left this earth with clear instructions…The Great Commission….Go into every land and preach to every man, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to learn of everything that I have commanded you and I will go with you always even until the end of the age.
We all should have the same purpose, the same goal, the same vision, the same “mission statement” in my opinion because that is what it is really all about. We make things more complicated than they need to be and that is when we start forming these lines that in turn get crossed…causing conflict…and eventually the break up and fall of our churches…there goes your purpose, your goal, your vision, your “mission statement” down the tubes and what do we have to show the fallen world? Look we are no better than your local United Way, Country Club with a cause, etc. In fact…alot of times we are worse because we like to throw “in Jesus name” in our committee meetings where we create most of our lines and we never even really sought Him to begin with. We are just trying to be bigger, better, and put out fires so we don’t hurt anyone’s feelings while we are in fact hurting Him and His will for our lives. I am a black and white person…(you know this) and to me it is very clear. SEEK the Holy Spirit in ALL that we do!! LOVE people the way Christ loves us! FORGIVE and allow people to right their wrongs and move forward and heal. Get rid of committees all together and meet with the Father! Read His word, His instructions are clear! Don’t know if this helped…but these are my thoughts for now. Keep keeping it real! I love ya!
I get where you’re coming from… and for the most part I agree, but I do think there is a fine line between what you’re talking about and the realities of some of our churches. There is a reality that some “organizations” grow so big that in an effort to delegate committees have to be formed. Sometimes the reality of the budgets that churches run require more than one pair of eyes and ears on them… however I think that there are times when we put together a “Parking Committee” with the intention of helping people get into and out of the church easier… but the reality is a bunch of people who just want to be in charge twist it from a good thing to a bad thing. Maybe that’s it… to many people wanting to much power?
Don’t have a whole lot to add here Jason, you have addressed the issue very well, and I am right there with you. But to answer the question, “How do we make the lines disappear?” It’s pretty simple – quit drawing them! God doesn’t need us to add to His law or to His word, He did a pretty good job with it the first time. Live in the fruit of the Spirit and exercise the gifts of the Spirit, and the rest should pretty much take care of itself.
Jason – excellent post!
Jill – amen to your well-said comment!
Love it Scott… miss you buddy.
I too have been struggling with something along these ‘lines’, where the focus of the church isn’t on saving souls, but drawing lines in the sand, and poking fun at those who cross it, even though the crossing may be less of a sin than the condemnation and judgmental finger pointing that is directed the way of the ‘line crosser’. Jesus turned water into wine. For me, having an occasional glass of wine isn’t a sin, because I believe that Jesus was without sin, and would never create something sinful, and give it to His people. To that effect, if I drink two bottles of wine and find myself in a drunken state, then I am sinning. 1 Corinthians 10:23 tells us that everything is lawful, but not everything is beneficial, and brings about good fruits and good results that edify our Savior. That being said, some people cannot and should not drink because of tendencies to not have control and something harmless leads to bad decisions. Sadly, the church often preaching the evil of a glass of wine is the one that refuses to get involved in moving the church to protect and deliver ‘the least of these’, the unborn, those in the slave trade, subjects some are too uncomfortable with to approach, so they focus on what is comfortable… Churches have become so big, in some cases, too big, actually writing their own laws, the very things that Jesus died to deliver us from. I have already rambled on too much, but I appreciate your post, and although my response may have (squirrel!) wandered a bit, I totally understand where you are coming from. God bless! (BTW, Joyce Meyer is a HUGE influence on me, and I just love her!)
My guess, on getting read of lines, is building the opposite, unity. It makes me think, of pauls Letters because in almost every one, if not every one, he adresses unity in the church. Without it slinters, divides, chasms, and LINES are made. Unity, love and affection. That would be my guess on getting read of lines. Following Scripture. I also think that the idea of unity and lines covers a ton of ground. A healthy or unhealthy church, friendships or heartbreaks, brothers and sisters in Christ, or enemies. Unity.
such a simple solution, yet one we find so difficult to put into action. the answer? love. it’s the answer to every question – small or great. it is the “hinge” on which hangs every truth of who He is. i’m adding a link from a “note” that i wrote on fb last week b/c i see now that God is stirring something in His body. i’m connected to margaret feinberg (author of ‘the organic god’) on fb. i was scrolling through my feed last week (2 days after writing my own ‘i hate religion’ note) and came across her post ‘the single hardest thing you’ll ever ask as a christian’. wow. my heart (while saddened by the article) leapt at the confirmation of what He had been stirring in me. then, to be reading your blog now so soon after…He’s at work and i’m stoked. i whole-heartedly believe this awesome “revival” that we are all looking for, this end-time “outpouring”, is really just a fresh revelation of His grace…a result of His selfless, undying love and devotion to us. when we look at ourselves in light of that, how can we NOT love others without boundaries?! good-bye, lines! https://www.facebook.com/brooke.r.ayscue?ref=tn_tnmn#!/notes/brooke-roy-ayscue/i-hate-religion/10151438567053736
Love the commentary and the post… so appreciate your insight and your willingness to speak transparently!
I think it comes from control. We like control and the power that comes along with it. A lot of it I think is if we have these rules or lines and someone cross it it is something we can point at and say they are not right with God. Maybe it comes from are own insecurity and relationship with God. Like you said one church is doing well so they try and duplicate that else where but the people are different but instead of saying the formula is wrong they look at they people and see their differences and draw a line instead of seeing them the way God sees them. Drawing lines is easy and we tend to go toward easy don’t we. Loving truly loving people is what is hard. Once we truly love people not just any love but the way God loves them than the lines will begin to disappear.
Love it Sara,
Its interesting though that there are some times when it’s ok to admit that you can’t please everyone. That’s a great line in the sand. We do what we do and it may not be for everyone but we want to serve a certain demographic that’s not getting served. Ie. My church began with the mission to reach those who had been hurt by the church. Today we are full of people who have never been hurt by the church and probably never been to church… but that doesn’t mean we tell them “You can’t come here” it just means that we keep that focus even as our ministry grows. I think definitions are ok… defining a mission statement is great, but we can still reach those who have been hurt by the church while ministering to every person who walks through the door. You know?
Jason,
Thank you for writing this blog, I totally agree with what you wrote. It doesn’t matter waht denomination we come from, we are all brothers and sisters in the Lord. We seemed to judge people before we even know them. That has happened to me in my life many times, even in the church. People should know we are Christian’s by our love. I can see why people don’t go to church, I am honest with you there are times I don’t even want to go to church because of how I have been treated. The worship leader at one of the churches wanted me out of the team, she and I were best friends. I have forgiven her but it is hard to forget. Thanks again for your blog, I always look forward to read them, they are always encouraging. Thank you for being honest with us and sharing your heart. God bless you, Marjan
Be HUMBLE …like that man who on bended knee washed the feet of those who were partaking of His last supper ..He was also the one who “lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” … the ‘Line in the Sand’ thing ..a line drawn for what purpose? ..hint: It wasn’t to separate.
We can not outright make someone become humble, however we can demonstrate it in our own lives, we can pray for those who need understanding and compassion, and we can speak lovingly of His mercy and grace when the opportunity is given …one may want to pray for their hearts to be open and receptive beforehand.
Thanks for the thought-provoking post Jaosn!! ..enjoy reading everyone’s response! ..take care and God bless!
Beth
You make several valid points, Jason, and I share your frustration. I couldn’t even begin to count the number of friends and acquaintances who once were very active members of a church, but now consider themselves atheists as a result of lines being drawn, church politics, and the hypocrisy of some of the members. My own brother-in-law and his family are now proud atheists as a result of a bad church experience. His 30-year-old daughter spends a good chunk of her time bashing Christians on Facebook and elsewhere. I can take the bashing…but I lose sleep over the fact that if they die tomorrow, they will end up in hell.
I think many Christians become so wrapped up in their local church, and drawing lines therein, that they forget the universal church…the body of believers who have been called out from the world by God to live as his people under the authority of Jesus Christ. As you pointed out in your reply to Mark’s comment, if all Christians could keep their focus where it belongs…on Jesus….these lines would melt away. Unfortunately, this isn’t likely to happen in the near future, and many more will turn away from God when they’re really upset with their local church.
So what can we do about it? Strive to do the right thing as an example to others….and pray. It’s not about us. It’s about Him. We may need to remind others of this from time to time. We may need to remind ourselves. But, it’s an important point that Christians can never forget.
Thanks for sharing with us, Jason. Keep the faith…and God Bless.
Brad
I think the lines start ‘disappearing’ when we realize our own broken state. We reach a hand up, draw closer in our walks with God–and He pulls us in 🙂
Unless we know a person well, our place in their life should error on the side of encouraging them. It depends on our relationship, whether or not we ‘get into their business’.
Its tricky; especially when you’re kind of center stage: as a woman, who co-leads worship, do I share what God has impressed upon my heart–or fear what others might think? Many times, I’ve had to trust that the Lord will pull the songs and transitions together, as only He can do. My job is to prepare, practice, and show up 🙂
Love Beth Moore! She is awesome, b/c she knows its not about her 🙂 One of her quotes, that I love, is ‘this study is not ABOUT you, but it is FOR you.’
Really enjoyed the show, at North Central, in MN! Small crowd, but we all were glad you guys came 🙂 Thanks for sharing your music, and your heart, with us. Keep on writing, as well!
Just a few more thoughts…this post is really convicting, for me. I’m thinking of a few people, who I know feel hurt by the church. It saddens me. And then I think of how broken we all are…whether we realize it or not.
I think lines get drawn out of fear and control, as others have mentioned. I have a history in a very legalistic upbringing, so I’m sensitive to this kind of stuff. I really don’t want to go back there. I get frustrated, with church, when we have rules about what we can and cannot do, in worship. I respect the powers that be, but don’t necessarily agree.
After going through some hard stuff, my relationship with God has become something beautiful. It wasn’t at all like that, when I was trying to ‘follow all the rules’, and please everyone.
It’s humbling to face your own short-comings, and I can honestly say that those faults have become more evident to me, not because of what another person has pointed out–but rather, b/c God by His Spirit, has revealed some things, in time.
We need good people around us, to keep us accountable. As I said before, its about relationship–how well those people know us–that grants some freedom to walk with us through our struggles.
Liz I love your thoughts here… I love that you say your faults have not become more evident because of them being pointed about by a person so much as by the Holy Spirit via a relationship with him. So awesome! I get that female worship leader thing too…. that’s always a fine line. i think the hardest part is that a change in culture always takes time. A lot more than we’d like for it to take. That’s really what it seems like a lot of us are talking about. There are still people that live in my town that believe black people are less important than white… which is CRAZY… but that generally is because it is just a reflection of their parents beliefs. The only way to break that in a person is with Love. I love the U2 record “How to dismantle an atomic bomb” the answer in the insert was “LOVE” it takes time and sometimes it feels like we’ll never make it, but ultimately LOVE wins.
Yep–love is something we’ll continually grow into, and never outgrow, for as long as we’re on this earth. Its the garment we’ll forever be wearing. For the things we can’t answer, they get laid before the feet of Jesus 🙂
I’ll have to check out that record sometime–Blessings, and thank you for the encouragement!
Rather than doing it our way…what makes us comfortable…we ought to be doing it GOD’S way. Easier said than done, but if we did, the lines might just start to disappear. We draw those lines, I think, because it makes us more comfortable. Lately I’ve been having to step out of my comfort zone, and when I do, things get REAL messy, but REAL worth it. If we’re going to go into the darkest places to shine GOD’S light, obviously things are going to get MESSY. I mean, come on. We can’t just sit around and wait for the truly broken people to come to us. We’ve got to go to them, and LISTEN to God when we do. Not preach at them or show off “how holy I am”, but SHINE his love on them no matter what. This is something I’m sure we all struggle with. We as Christians tend to not like the idea of getting messy, being disliked, and CROSSING those lines and leaving them behind us. We forget too easily that this is REALLY, REALLY not about us…God has sent us on a mission to love one another as ourselves and bring people to know him–to salvation. Not to sit around and judge people, sort them out, nit-pick them, compare them, or exclude them.
Thanks for touching on this subject, Jason. The Holy Spirit really speaks through this one.
Lines are always drawn whether it’s church politics, politics in general, or life in general depending on your own beliefs/morals/doctrines. Personally I dont believe all lines drawn are wrong. i think lines that are drawn that doesn’t edify each other, glorify God, or causes dissension would be wrong. It’s sad and disheartening that we as people of God bicker and draw these lines in the church that’s suppose to be all forgiving, all embracing, while showing the Love of God. However, to iliminate such lines would require a perfect world and perfect people (which we are not). So the next best thing to do would be to stop drawing lines ourselves. Meaning we can only control our own behaviors and convictions while praying others would be convicted as well and follow along. We control ourselves and through our own lives, we make a life lasting impact on others for the better, who in turn will replicate what they have learned through good leadership.
So to make a long response short, we have to start with ourselves first before others would hopefully follow our own footsteps, while praying for the church/person to be convicted to change and stop making the lines as well. Be an example and leader.
Great topic. Makes one think twice about what lines we ourselves draw as well.
Thanks! God bless!
I believe that all these lines come down when each one of us has a deep desire to become more into the image of Jesus Christ. Francis Frangipane has a great teaching on becoming into the image of Christ.
Lines and groups are comfortable and quantifiable. That’s why people like them. But since God is neither of these things it’s ludicrous to try and emulate him within those contexts. As soon as someone – even just one person – accepts that God cannot be bottled, that Jesus’ sacrifice cannot be limited, then the lines will start to disappear. I think it’s something that needs to be done daily and it starts with the individual.
BOOM Kate… pretty powerful commentary… but how do you make a person or a people group begin that process??
Whether we like it or not, in today’s society there are “lines” or opinions that everyone has. I work in an environment(law enforcement) where we are quick to judge. Quick to judge that people are either crazy or lazy. I can’t begin to explain, that I even as a proclaimed Christian, have been quick to judge someone. I know in my heart of hearts, that it is not my place to judge someone, because I don’t know the circumstances or reasons, behind the things that I do. I fight the battle and pray everyday that the Good Lord will forgive me for my thoughts and feelings towards people. Lines and judgments will always be there, but it is up to us as Children Of God, to change the worlds views. I have no clue if what I am trying to express is making much sense, but regardless of how we feel as Christians about the way that things should be, realistically that is not always the case. It’s up to us to shape and change the world.
Very thought provoking…I will now be more aware of MY daily actions so that when I turn around at the end of each day I see a path headed towards Christ instead of a line towards evil. (hope that makes sense) LEAD.BY.EXAMPLE. 🙂 Blessings to you Mr. Roy
Some people left our small church when a few young unsaved people started coming.
They complained that the youngsters were rowdy impolite and rude.
We’ve loved them and let them be themselves never speaking out of turn when they’ve done something wrong (which was quite often!)
Fast forward 8 years and we have about 35 young people every Sunday and nearly half have made a commitment.
We have to accept people as they are. We all have problems but some are more obvious than others.
Funny how God works those things out. Often times when we lose something that we are so afraid of losing (i.e. influential leaders in the church) God replaces them with something far greater (Passionate, young, enthusiastic, followers of Christ). Honestly, I’ve been able to travel to a LOT of different churches in my career as both worship pastor and front man, and there have been quite a few through the years that desperately needed to lose a few calloused hearts. It’s so sad that just a few uncaring people in leadership can drown a whole church.
On another note though, this post and other comments have begun to prick my heart as I think through the things that I’m calloused to. What are they??? How can I make sure that I’m not an accidental Pharisee myself?
Jason Thanks for provoking my thoughts again. I think it is human nature to draw lines but when we FOCUS on Jesus and put HIM first, the lines start fading away if we do His will as we are called to. Who did Jesus tend to focus most on? The sinners- the least of these- The first 2 commandments speak volumes- LOVE the Lord thy God with all your heart, your mind & your soul and LOVE thy neighbor as thyself! Have a great show in Sault Ste. Marie MI- it is a beautiful place! Did you go to the Soo Locks? Tahquamenon Falls is awesome if you have time to experience it- fun family adventure! Wish I could be there!Love your music!
Jason,
The lines fade away when we put Jesus first. In order to do that in my opinion, doesn’t mean more church or more scripture, but it means more relationship with Jesus. In order for that to happen, we must first learn who we are in Him; not as the world sees us or the church sees us, but as He sees us. There was many times I had to walk away from church as I knew it, being called a backslider and sinner all the way, but in that I learned more about me, but more importantly, more about Jesus and what He thought of me. I learned how to stop making the same mistakes. I had to search for Him first, look at the plank in my own eye and have since begun to emerge from that life of pain and rejection to a life of seeing across the boundaries of race, religion and worldly views to become more like Christ. My views have changed, my life has changed, but most importantly my relationship with Him has changed and I have found the love of my life….Jesus.